Sunday, June 22, 2014

Chapter 7: Truth

In Chapter 7, Ridge takes on the challenge of accommodating the notion of normative truth within the overall programme of Ecumenical Expressivism (EE). His main aim in doing so is to provide a workable alternative to what could currently be seen as the standard expressivist approach to truth. Popularised primarily by Blackburn, this standard approach is deflationary, taking truth-aptness as a mere matter of declarative form and the truth-predicate as a mere device for disquotation. Ridge, however, is concerned that a commitment to deflationism would leave too many hostages to fortune, considering the numerous objections to which this theory of truth has been subjected more broadly within the philosophy of language. For this reason, he devises a conceptual machinery meant to enable the ecumenical expressivist to take on board any other plausible theory of truth (his focus in the chapter is on correspondence) and to modify it in a principled way so that it fits snuggly within EE. There are lots of interesting ideas and insights in this chapter, all worthy of much more attention than I can give them here. In the interest of brevity I’ll focus on what I take to be the main thread of Ridge’s argument, leaving aside some of his subsidiary moves. I’ll raise a number of critical issues and questions along the way, though I confess that on the whole I find myself more often agreeing than disagreeing with Ridge.

Expressivism, Truth-Aptness, Deflationism

For a few decades now, expressivists have taken a deflationary approach to truth. Deflationism works on two levels. First, there’s deflationism about truth-aptness, according to which truth-aptness is simply a matter of grammar: if statements in a certain domain of discourse have the declarative form, then they’re truth-apt. Normative statements are obviously declarative, so they qualify. Then, there’s deflationism about the truth-predicate. On this view, ‘is true’ is merely a device for disquotation, whose meaning is given by instances of the famous schema:

     (T) ‘p’ is true if and only if p.

In other words, the truth-predicate adds nothing to the semantic content of the proposition to which it is ascribed. When I say that it is true that charity is good, I say nothing more than that charity is good. So whenever I’m entitled to make the latter claim I am also entitled to make the former. Deflationism thus gives us truth “on the cheap”.

Ridge rejects both these kinds of deflationism. With respect to truth-aptness, he subscribes instead to minimalism, which adds the idea of discipline to the deflationist’s insistence on declarative form. And since the work completed in previous chapters of the book amounts to a cumulative argument to the effect that normative discourse is subject to the appropriate kind of discipline, Ridge takes himself, rightly in my view, to have already established that normative discourse is truth-apt. 

With respect to deflationism about the truth-predicate, Ridge is equally critical. Although he doesn’t formulate a decisive objection to it, in §2 he lists a number of problems that this type of deflationism faces more widely within the philosophy of language: its incompatibility with the idea of truth-value gaps, the formal problems arising out of the incompleteness results, and, more importantly, the difficulty of accounting for the normativity of meaning and truth. According to Ridge, these problems are enough to show that deflationism is on philosophically shaky ground - shaky enough, that is, for the expressivist not to want to pin all her hopes on it, but instead to be looking elsewhere for a sort of “insurance policy”.

Ridge’s Account of Truth in EE     

Ridge couches his alternative proposal in terms of the correspondence theory, which he chooses because of its friendliness to representationalism. Here’s my reconstruction of the main building blocks of Ridge’s account:

  1. As the objects of propositional attitudes like belief and desire, propositions are the primary truth-bearers. (p. 204) 
  2. A normative proposition does not fix a single representational content - rather, it expresses a hybrid state (a relation between a normative perspective and a representational belief) and is thus multiply realisable: the representational belief that partly constitutes it can take any of an indefinite range of contents. (p. 205) 
  3. From (A) and (B) it follows that the business of representing the world is done not by propositions, but by their representational contents. Token normative propositions represent only indirectly, via the contents that are assigned to them by the normative perspectives that partly constitute them (ibid.).
  4. From (C) it follows that the same kind of indirectness must be replicated in our theory of truth for propositions. Specifically, the truth of a proposition must be interpreted in terms of the truth of its associated representational contents.
  5. Hence, we get the following indirect account: using ‘p’ to denote an arbitrary proposition, a claim of the form ‘p is true’ means that on any acceptable construal, the representational content of p corresponds to reality. (p. 208)
  6. Since the clause on the right-hand side of the meaning equivalence in (E) deploys a normative concept (‘acceptable construal’), it follows that ascriptions of truth are essentially normative judgments.
  7. Given EE’s account of normative judgments, it follows from (F) that an ascription of truth of the form ‘p is true’ expresses a hybrid state made up of: (i) a normative state; (ii) the belief that on any of the admissible specifications of the representational content of p, that content corresponds to reality (p. 209).   

Ridge packs a lot in here - much of which, I think, is on the right track. In what follows, I want to express (excuse the pun!) two cheers and two associated fears about his proposal.

Here’s my first cheer. The view spelled out in claims (F) and (G) above, namely that truth-ascriptions are normative, has a lot going for it. I am independently persuaded that truth is an essentially normative concept, mainly due to an argument put forward by Huw Price in his 2003 paper, “Truth as Convenient Fiction”. Moreover, it is a virtue of Ridge’s account that he doesn’t restrict his approach only to ascriptions of truth taking normative judgments as their objects - rather, he states that the approach “generalises to arbitrarily complex claims and thoughts in which ‘true’ figures” (p. 211). This, for instance, enables him to say that both ‘It is true that charity is good’ and ‘It is true that grass is green’ are normative judgments, whereas the deflationist could only say that about the former. To my mind, this gives Ridge an advantage over deflationism, though it’s not an advantage that he explicitly claims for himself. On the other hand, one advantage that Ridge does claim for his view is that it can fend off a counterexample to Hume’s Law (the injunction against deriving ‘ought’ from ‘is’). The counterexample is due to Mark Nelson:

     (1) The Pope believes that charity is good.
     (2) All the Pope’s beliefs about charity are true.
     Therefore, (3) Charity is good.

On a standard understanding of truth-ascriptions, (2) is descriptive. Since (1) is also descriptive but (3) is normative, the inference is supposed to have derived an ‘ought’ purely from a set of ‘is’ premises. However, Ridge rightly points out that on his view, (2) counts instead as a normative judgment, and therefore the inference from (1) & (2) to (3) already contains an ‘ought’ hidden in the premises.

But here comes my related worry. Ridge explicitly commits himself on p. 210 and elsewhere to the “transparency” of truth, namely to the claim that the following two entailments are valid: ‘p, therefore it is true that p’, and ‘it is true that p, therefore p’. Now take the first of these entailments. If that’s valid, then the following instance of it is valid, too: 

     (4) Grass is green.
     Therefore, (5) It is true that grass is green. 

Now, (4) is a descriptive claim, whereas (5) is a normative one, at least if Ridge is right about truth-ascriptions. Thus, we have an ‘is’ that directly entails an ‘ought’ - a fine counterexample to Hume’s Law! However, Ridge states that he finds Hume’s Law independently plausible (p. 218). So something has to give here. For my part, I would be inclined to give up on Hume’s Law, given that I have a stronger commitment to the normativity of truth. But I would also be curious to hear what Ridge thinks about this, and whether or not his own inclination is the same as mine.

Be that as it may, here is my second cheer. As Ridge himself notes (p. 207), his proposal that propositional truth be interpreted as the truth of associated representational contents on all acceptable construals (as per claim (E) above) is structurally similar to the supervaluationist account, on which a sentence is true just in case it is super-true, i.e. true on all admissible precisifications. Supervaluationism is a theory of truth designed to account for propositions containing vague predicates, and in this connection Ridge suggests at one point (particularly in footnote 15 on p. 207) that normative predicates are maximally vague - having determinate non-instances but no determinate instances. As someone who has been thinking long and hard about the vagueness of moral predicates, all of this is music to my ears! 

But I also have a related worry. When glossing the notion of maximal vagueness, Ridge says that normative predicates are maximally vague in the sense that there are no cases to which they apply as a matter of sheer semantic and conceptual competence. But this, he adds, doesn’t entail that there are therefore no determinate normative truths. Instead, according to him “there are many determinately true and non-trivial normative propositions. The point is that which ones are determinately true is something which competent speakers as such can disagree about even if they agree on all the relevant non-normative facts” (p. 207, n. 15). It seems to me that this is one of the strongest claims Ridge makes about truth in this chapter. Effectively, he’s saying that knowledge of normative truths is entailed neither by factual knowledge of non-normative truths, nor by knowledge of semantics. And of course, as a quasi-realist committed to mimicking realist talk about the normative domain, this is exactly what he should be saying. For it is indeed a staple of realism that normative truths are epistemically unconstrained in the ways specified above, as well as in other ways. However, my question is this: how is Ridge going to interpret such claims of epistemic unconstrainedness with respect to normative truth in a quasi-realist fashion, without taking on the full-blown commitments of robust realists? The old deflationist has a ready-made solution to this - she can simply adopt a deflationary view of such claims of epistemic unconstrainedness as:

     (7) If you thought kicking dogs was permissible, you’d be wrong.
     (8) If you knew all the facts about dog pain but somehow thought that kicking dogs was
            permissible, you’d be wrong. 
     (9) Kicking dogs is wrong even if everybody else approves of it. 
   (10) Even if we could never know what to make of it, kicking dogs would still be wrong.
    (11) Even if we all approved of it, kicking dogs would still be wrong.

According to the deflationary expressivist (e.g. Blackburn), statements like (7)-(11) all have essentially the same function: they express our first-order con-attitude towards kicking dogs, as well as various second-order attitudes about that first-order attitude. In (7), for instance, we’re expressing our first order attitude together with a second-order con-attitude to having a pro-attitude towards kicking dogs. In (11), we’re expressing our first-order attitude again, this time together with a second-order con-attitude towards changing our mind about that first-order attitude. And so on. The point is that by providing these deflationary readings, the quasi-realist appears to make good on the promise of mimicking realist talk without taking on the metaphysical baggage of realism. He does so by refusing to hear (7)-(11) as anything other than so many more normative claims, made from within our normative perspectives.

But how can Ridge hope to perform the same trick once he’s rid himself of deflationism? Read in the manner encouraged by a correspondence theory of truth, each of (7)-(11) suggests a commitment to a normative reality making some of our judgements true and others false. At this stage, it may seem as though Ridge has dropped the ‘quasi’ qualification and has opted instead for full-blown realism.

One way for Ridge to reply to this would be to point out that his eschewal of deflationism about truth does not necessarily mean that he cannot take a deflationary view of other notions. Perhaps he could cherry-pick, combining, for instance, a robust view of truth with a deflationary view of facts. This leads me on to my final worry, which I’ll outline in a separate section.

Correspondence and Deflationist Facts

Here is one way of thinking about this. Given (G) above, a truth-ascription like ‘It is true that charity is good’ expresses a hybrid state constituted by (i) a normative perspective, and (ii) the belief that on any of the admissible specifications of the representational content of ‘Charity is good’, that content corresponds to reality. But according to EE, ‘Charity is good’ expresses a hybrid state constituted by (a) a normative perspective, and (b) the belief that charity would be highly ranked as an end by any acceptable ultimate standard of practical reasoning. Featuring in the representational content of ‘Charity is good’ is a reference to admissible standards of practical reasoning. And since this representational content is supposed to correspond to reality, it must follow that reality contains facts about admissible standards of practical reasoning. These are normative facts. Therefore, normative facts exist.

Unless something’s gone wrong in my reasoning above, this seems to indicate that talk of correspondence in Ridge’s theory will ultimately force him to commit to the existence of at least some normative facts (viz., facts about admissible standards). But isn't this just the starting point of a slippery slope leading all the way to full-blown realism?

Well, one could say this depends on how we interpret talk of facts. If facts are understood realistically, then yes, this is realism. But why could Ridge not take a deflationary understanding of facts, according to which ‘It’s a fact that p’ simply means ‘p’? 

The problem here is that deflationism about facts seems to simply nullify the appeal to the correspondence theory of truth. If Ridge were to say that p is true iff p corresponds to the facts, but then add that it’s a fact that p iff p, then it would seem to me he’d be effectively backtracking. In that case, any talk of “corresponding to the facts” would become idle, and Ridge’s theory of truth would just boil down to deflationism - ‘p’ is true iff p.

Summary of critical points

Let me end this lengthy exposition by summarising my main critical points (such as they are) in the form of three brief questions, to facilitate discussion:

(Q1) Is there a tension between Ridge’s commitment to the normativity of truth, his commitment to the transparency of truth, and his commitment to Hume’s Law? (Recall that combining the first two appears to provide a counterexample to the latter.)

(Q2) How can Ridge interpret claims about the epistemic unconstrainedness of normative truth without collapsing into full-blown realism? 

(Q3) Is the correspondence theory of truth compatible with a deflationist view of normative facts?            

15 comments:

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  3. Thanks for the clear and careful summary and for the worries. I am not entirely sure I get the second two yet (need to mull them over a bit more), but I definitely feel the force of the first one. Jamie Dreier raised the same problem. One option is to back away from my unqualified endorsement of the transparency of truth, which in a way is something my framework provides a principled grounds for doing. If someone thinks some predicate does not admit of any acceptable construals, then any claim in which that predicate is used will not be true by their lights. So long as this view is conceptually coherent, there will be no *direct* conceptual entailment from 'p' to 'it is true that p'. Similarly, if someone thinks that there is no such thing as corresponding to reality (cf. Kevin Scharp, whose *Replacing Truth* argues for an error theory about our ordinary concept of truth and offers a replacement theory), then they should not endorse the transition from 'p' to 'it is true that p' given my analysis (on its correspondence construal, that is). Again, all I need is that such views are not conceptually incoherent to block conceptual validity (which I take to be the most interesting way to formulate Hume's Law), not that they are terribly plausible. I am a bit tempted by that option at this stage.

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  4. Another option (more of a cop-out, but with some independent justification), would be to deny that Hume's Law holds for all normative uses of 'ought'. Perhaps it holds only for deontic and epistemic normativity, but not alethic normativity, given some of the peculiar features of the truth predicate. This will obviously intersect with the tricky issue of how to get around Prior-style counter-examples to Hume's Law, which I suspect will anyway force some fancy footwork and reformulation of the doctrine. One idea here would be that you can't get from purely descriptive premises to a conclusion which is normative and which can thereby provide its characteristic guidance - the point being that if you get to the conclusion that 'p' is true from your belief that p then this alethic belief won't then guide you by getting you to form the belief that p - you already believe it, given this etiology! So this is another option, though I prefer the one I canvassed above. Yet another option again would be on you mention, I suppose, just to abandon Hume's Law (and the hunch that there are close cousins of Hume's Law which can avoid Prior style worries, etc.) altogether - I don't really need it for the view as a whole, just for one argument for it. Hmm. I need to think more about this - thanks!

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    1. Thanks Mike (if I may)! I think on balance I actually prefer the second of your suggestions. The first option - that of giving up on ‘p->Tp’ - seems to me unappealing, though I confess I don't actually have an argument to back up my misgiving here. I'm typically wary of brandishing intuitions instead of constructing arguments in philosophy, but after all what else have we got to rely on in meta-semantics if not the power of our semantic intuitions? So with this caveat, I'll just say that I find 'p, therefore it's true that p' to be one of those big, foundational intuitions that are just part of what it means to use the truth-predicate. (But then again, the very first paper on truth I ever read as an undergrad was Tarski's "The Semantic Conception of Truth", and from then on I've had the T-schema hammered into me by many years of exposure to deflationism, so I guess I'd say that sort of thing, wouldn't I?) You give the example of a speaker who thinks some predicate admits of no acceptable construals, and who will thereby refuse to assent to any ascription of truth to propositions in which that predicate is used. You seem to think that if this sort of case is conceptually possible, then it could provide a counterexample to ‘t->Tp’. But I’m not sure I get your point here. If the speaker really thinks that a predicate has no admissible construals, then that speaker will refuse to assent not just to ‘Tp’ (where ‘p’ denotes the purported proposition containing that predicate), but also to ‘p’ itself. For to my mind, a predicate with no admissible construals thereby fails to even generate assertible propositions. That is, unless I’m misunderstanding your point about admissible construals here…

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    2. On the other hand, let me switch sides here and try to see if I can argue your point for a while. I'll take a leaf from Huw Price's pragmatism here, as well as from Nick's paper on resolute expressivism, which I greatly admire. Perhaps 'p->Tp' is just the sort of thing that logicians, semanticists and most philosophers of language find inescapably intuitive because of their focus on propositions said by no-one and only symbolically represented on paper. How about if we turn our gaze away from symbols on paper, and on to rather actual utterances made by real-life speakers in real-life contexts? Can we find real-life contexts in which a proposition would be assertible, but a truth-asscription having that proposition as its object would not? I can think of at least one case. Suppose I have to choose to assent to either 'Harry is bald' or 'Harry isn't bald' in a context of radical uncertainty: in fact, Harry is a borderline case of baldness. However much I study Harry's slightly receding hairline, I just cannot make up my mind one way or the other. Our common friends disagree about whether or not Harry is bald: some are just as undecided as I am, others swear he's definitely bald, yet others think he's not bald. On balance, slightly more people seem to think Harry might be bald. Now, someone has kidnapped Harry and threatens that unless I plump for one or the other of the contradictory claims *and get it right*, they will actually decapitate him. Given that among my friends the balance seems to tip ever so slightly in favour of Harry being possibly bald, I decide that being definitely bald is better than being headless, so I plump for 'Harry is bald'. This seems like a context where assenting to 'p' is the thing to do, but assenting to 'It is true that p' is definitely not warranted. Does this help your case?

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    3. Hi,

      I had toyed with vagueness cases, too, but not sure I have stable intuitions in cases like the one you lay out. On your first post, I agree that someone who thinks some predicate employed in 'p' has no acceptable construals probably ought not believe that p any more than he ought to believe that p is true. However, I'm not sure that undermines the point I wanted to make, which concerned conceptual validity. I think it depends on whether someone who believes that p while at the same time holding that some predicate employed in 'p' has no acceptable construal thereby necessarily demonstrates *conceptual* incompetence, as opposed to some other sort of mistake (pragmatic, epistemic, whatever). That isn't obvious to me, anyway. But perhaps I should rest my case on the conceptual coherence of an error theory about correspondence (or whatever other substantive notion one plugs into my machinery, I guess). Insofar as that is correct, the intuition that 'p therefore it is true that p' is conceptually valid may be a reason to favour deflationism - and, of course, if deflationism is correct then my broader theory should be fine - I just won't need to invoke my 'insurance policy' in that case.

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  5. Let me try to say a bit more here about the other worry I was trying to articulate in my critical summary, just to see if I manage to spell it out a bit more clearly. In addition to the meta-semantic project of giving a theory of truth for normative discourse, Ridge also makes some meta-meta-semantic claims in this chapter. One of them is this: speakers who possess perfect semantic and conceptual competence, as well as complete knowledge of non-normative facts, could still disagree about normative truths. It seems to me that this amounts to saying that normative truth is epistemically (and semantically) unconstrained: in other words, a normative proposition ‘p’ may be determinately true even though competent and maximally informed speakers may never come to know that ‘p’ is determinately true (Ridge explicitly says this on p. 207, n. 15). Realists, of course, would want to say this sort of thing (famously, the epistemic unconstrainedness of truth is a hallmark of realism about a given domain, according to Dummett). As a quasi-realist, Ridge is committed to mimicking this type of talk. So far so good. But can he do so without actually collapsing into realism? My worry is that he cannot. The reason why Blackburn can successfully mimic a realist-sounding meta-meta-semantic claim about truth - such as the thesis of epistemic unconstrainedness - is because he uses deflationism to paraphrase all claims that apparently work at a meta-level as claims that belong within the first-order evaluative domain (so, the thesis of epistemic unconstrainedness is glossed by Blackburn as a commitment to claims of the form “Even if we all disapproved of X, X would still be right”, and these claims in turn are interpreted as first-order moral claims). Ridge, however, cannot appeal to this strategy. His correspondence view of truth commits him to staying at the meta-level. Correspondence takes truth to be a matter of meshing with the facts, and so the thesis that normative truth is epistemically unconstrained entails, on Ridge's view, that there are normative facts out there which are epistemically unconstrained. A realist, of course, would say just this. Even Blackburn could agree, adding only that the notion of fact must be interpreted in a deflationary manner. But Ridge, I am claiming, cannot go deflationary on facts, since that would make his correspondence theory virtually indistinguishable from deflationism about truth. So it seems that he’s forced to interpret facts robustly. But then, he’s committed to the view that there are robust normative facts out there which are epistemically unconstrained. Isn’t that full-blown realism?

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    1. OK, I am getting this more now - thanks. I am partially tempted here to invoke Simon's distinction between what one ends up saying and how one earns the right to say it. The meta-semantic explanation of how normative language has the distinctive meaning it has does not rely on some prior and independent notion of normative facts, and this is enough to distinguish the view from cognitivism, at least as I define the view - in the book I define cognitivism as presupposing a representationalist order of explanation for the contents of normative claims.

      Officially, the non-deflationist version of my view doesn't take a stand on the meaning of 'fact'. I *could* try to argue that only robustly representational discourse is worthy of the label, I suppose, but I'm not much inclined to do that, save perhaps in some technical notion of 'fact' invoked by theorists. As used by the folk, the notion of 'fact' seems *reasonably* well at home in the context of moral facts, and while folk wisdom doesn't have the last word in such matters, it does at least have the first word (I think Austin said something like that once). So I may need to lean heavily on the distinction drawn above.

      I think we need to be careful, though. I do think claims of the form, "Even if we all disapproved of X, X would still be right" are first-order claims, since there is no talk of truth or facts or any other such meta-notions in such claims. Blackburn and I agree, then, that there are normative facts which are epistemically unconstrained in the proffered sense. He explains why this need not entail realism by invoking a deflationist conception of truth, whereas I instead offer (as my insurance policy, anyway) a normative conception of truth.

      I suppose the other point I would emphasize is the importance of the distinction between concepts and properties. I'm inclined to agree with Gibbard that the property of being "the thing to do" (and the other normative properties) is (are) constituted by some natural property or other. Indeed, I'd be tempted to go further and say that it is identical to some natural property or other. In its normative metaphysics, the view is a species of naturalism. However, normative concepts are irreducible to naturalistic (or other descriptive) concepts. So in many ways the view is similar to a Cornell style moral realism, I suppose. I think, though, that my account offers a better account of how normative predicates get their meaning, thus avoiding all "moral twin earth" style objections. I also think it does better in terms of explaining/accommodating the practicality of normative judgments in the right way. So I suppose you could on some taxonomies (not my own, I guess - see above) legitimately call the view a realist view, and I wouldn't much mind - just a better version of realism than all the others for these sorts of reasons.

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  6. One thing I was hinting at in my last post but perhaps deserves being flagged up more is this - one way of understanding why Blackburn's deflationism helps him remain anti-realist in some useful sense is that talk about moral truth is ultimately cashed out in terms of expressing (or being committed to) more of the relevant desire-like attitudes. Hence no more ontological commitment than stems from an ordinary moral judgment. My view of truth (and facts, I guess) is not deflationist but on that account too truth talk is ultimately cashed out in terms of expressing more of the relevant hybrid states (which play the same role for me as simple desire-like states play for Simon). There is a bit more ontological commitment, of course, since on my account truth talk will commit one to correspondence (or coherence, or whatevery your otherwise favourite conception is), but that in itself should be no more problematic than the relevant theory of truth is anyway (and if it is rubbish then insert another or go deflationist - I'm ecumenical!). Finally, there is specifically a commitment to the idea that the representational contents associated with any token normative judgment can correspond to reality - but of course these will be token descriptive contents, such as that the action would be required by all principles identical in their content to the principle of utility, or whatever, so here too there should be no more ontological commitment than there is for anyone who endorses the correspondence of descriptive/natural judgments to the world, or whatever. Not sure how much that helps, but it at least makes more explicit something I meant to convey before but far too elliptically.

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  7. Hi,

    Thanks, this is very useful! I do like Blackburn's distinction between what one ends up saying and how one earns the right to say it. Blackburn, of course, has often been subjected to the accusation that once he takes on board, via deflationism, the trappings of truth, properties, facts, and so on, his view becomes effectively indistinguishable from the kind of realism he had sought to steer clear of (in fact, I'm embarrassed to confess that I myself have been known to press such points against him in conversation, back in the day when he'd just become my supervisor; nevermind, luckily I grew out of it now!). Somewhere in print (though I cannot recall exactly where now), Blackburn distinguishes between quasi-realism and realism in terms of a slow-track/fast-track approach: the implication being that quasi-realism could be thought of as slow-track realism. So when you say in your comment above that you don't mind much if people call you a realist, I guess you're making a similar point.

    But there is still a difference left between you and Blackburn, which arises from your commitment (conditional though it may be) to correspondence theory. Simon's deflationism about truth, properties, facts, etc. enables him to still claim that in a very important sense, he cannot be taken to be a full-blown realist: to him, talk of truth, facts, and the like is just a more emphatic way of expressing first-order moral attitudes, or adding flowers, given that Ramsey's ladder lies flat on the ground. So you can call it "slow-track realism” if you want, but because it's been slower to mature, it also lacks the edge of a more robust kind of realism.

    On the other hand, given your commitment to correspondence theory, your kind of slow-track realism (can we call it "super-slow-track", perhaps?) still has that edge. That's why I think you're right to admit that where you end up is much closer to Cornell realism than anything else.

    At the end of the day, I guess the difference has to do with the kinds of debate that one thinks are worth having. You seem to think that the debate between naturalists and non-naturalists about moral facts and properties is worth having. But to Blackburn, that debate is either meaningless or, at best, a misguided way of framing a debate that really concerns methodological naturalism/non-naturalism. In other words, the relevant question is not “What sort of facts are moral facts?”, but rather “How should we best approach the moral domain, and in what terms can we hope to understand it?” That’s why I like Nick’s way of thinking about resolute expressivism as a kind of global pragmatism, which I think is just right.

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  8. Well, of course I agree that we will understand the normative better if we start with our practice of making normative judgments rather than starting with putative normative facts - that is the "expressivist gambit" which I endorse in the book. It *may* be that once we have answered this question satisfactorily and defended a quasi-realist view that we can then ask about what sort of facts moral facts are, where the questions and answers we give will also be explained in expressivist terms. So I think it might be a false dichotomy to suggest that we should ask the former question *rather than* the latter. *Perhaps* we should ask both, even if the first one is in a sense prior, or at any rate a better starting point.

    Officially, I'm neutral in the book on whether we even need to go in for talk of normative properties, but I am not sure that allowing these further questions are coherent is such a bad thing to do, so long as we understand what we are doing when we ask and answer them in the right (expressivist) framework. Suppose Blackburn's first-order view were hedonistic utilitarianism, say. Then I'm not sure why he couldn't legitimately say that the property of being right is the property of maximizing happiness, hedonically construed. That would itself be a claim understood in expressivst terms of course, but then that is true on my own view as well. Granted, I bring in correspondence (on one way of filling out the story), but I tried to explain in my previous post why this doesn't compromise my quasi-realism given that truth talk is still normative talk. Ontologically you will need propositions like the proposition that this action maximizes happiness corresponding to reality, say, but if that is a problem it is a problem for the correspondence theory quite independently (and then perhaps I should go deflationist). There won't be any special ontological problem of *irreducible* normative facts or irreducible normative propositions corresponding to reality. But this is just to repeat what I said above, in my follow-up post. Mostly, though I want to emphasize that I don't think allowing these kinds of questions contradicts a commitment to global pragmatism, given the intended construal of the follow-up questions.

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  9. Thanks, that clarifies things very nicely. Having given this more thought, I actually think I agree with what you say above.

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  10. Also, sorry if I monopolised the comment session a bit, I guess I was making up for my absence from previous proceedings. Not to mention I got quite into this! I think I learned a lot from our discussion so far, so many thanks for the enlightening replies! I'd also be interested to hear other people's views on this chapter.

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  11. I am pretty sure if anyone should apologize for monopolizing the discussion it is me! I've found this dialogue very helpful, though.

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